TCG Stories

Today, I commenced the purchase of a 1992 Mercedes-Benz 500E. This is a car I've had on my radar for a while but hadn't taken seriously; a chance web search that led to me registering for the predominant 500E enthusiast forum, 500eboard.co. Within about 5 minutes of registering, I spotted the (amazingly) perfect candidate: a driver-quality 500E with some straightforward issues, and basic cosmetic flaws. On top of that, the price was reasonable and on the low end of the current trajectory for the model. 

It occured to me that with the exception of the cars I pulled out of junkyards and my daily driver, all of my other cars were discovered on message boards. The Z3 M Coupe, the '87 325is, the E55, the 964 Cabriolet, and now the 500E, all procured for very reasonable prices and all snagged outside of the watchful eye of Bring A Trailer. A few things stand out about this phenomenon: 

Forums are native spaces for older enthusiasts: I registered for my first web forum when I was 16 on the VWVortex. I am now 42 and message boards are imprinted on my brain as the place to go "meet" other enthusiasts, monitor projects, and log my own updates. Most importantly, it's a place where I frequently spot cars without much competition given an entire demographic has never even registered for a message board. My E30 and M Coupe were spotted on Bimmerforums; the 964 on Rennlist; the E55 on BenzForums; and now, the 500E on a dedicated message board I discovered this week. 

You get to know the owner: The real advantage to the forums is the exposure it provides to the seller. Within a few minutes, you have a phone number and a chance to hear the seller's voice. In addition, they're not skittish about "spooking" a potential bidder, or rushing you off the phone because they perceive six bidders to be six other suitors. Basically, you get quality one-on-one time with the guy you're hoping is as coherent as he sounds in his listing. 

The negotiations are kept private: One of the most frustrating things about Facebook groups or online auctions tends to be the nature of the comments. I've gone on at length about the damage armchair quarterbacks cause to auctions they'll never bid on, or the ruthless commentary in Facebook groups where 9 times out of 9.5, the first comment is a gripe about the price which only serves to dissuade others from making an offer. With a message board, there's a posted price and then there's what you pay when discussed in private. There's a gentleman's agreement (likely owing to the predominantly older/mature user base) that says if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything. For my 500E, I saved about $4,000 off the posted price, and the seller got 1:1 interaction with someone who was committed to buying his car and provided a clear plan for doing so. 

Like so many things in life, too many of us choose the path of least resistance. A Bring A Trailer auction is very easy to find, and you can even pretend to buy a car by bidding on something you'll never own. Forums expect you do a little homework on your own, from finding the best website for your chosen marque or model to registering and sharing some insights that then serve to elevate your privileges so you can do things like contact sellers of cars you're interested in. After that, it's up to you to handle negotiations and put on your big boy pants to maybe speak with someone on the phone. In a nutshell, you have to put in some work to find these opportunities. You can't just log on and hang out. You have to earn the privilege of status in the forum, something BaT used to do a pretty good job of before they let any noodnink with an internet connection weigh in on cars they'll never buy. 

BaT evangelists will tell you that's too much work and that the experience buying there is far simpler, and made more enjoyable due to the comments section; that's fine with me, as I'll gladly use the traditional message board to snag cars right out from under their noses. There's a reason some forums continue to endure despite the damage done by Facebook and online auctions, and it's because people like me and thousands of others keep them alive with good commentary and transparent intentions. 

I've written a few times lately about how damaging the comments gallery is on Bring A Trailer, but a car that sold recently shows the other side of the same coin: it's also largely ineffective when the vehicle in question is above reproach. In other words, the BaT comments apparatus has been shown to hurt good sellers of good cars, and be largely ineffective against mediocre sellers of great cars.

Related: Over the summer, I sold a handful vehicles to declutter my mind and garage. One was a 1999 911; another was my 1995 Audi S6 Avant. Both were drivers, and very well maintained. The 911 I stuck with a fairly firm price of around $20K while the S6 I priced somewhat aggressively due to its mediocre paint quality. The S6 sold in about a day, because of its rarity and turnkey condition; the 911 took closer to 2 months, owing to the fact I wasn't giving it away and there's a dozen 996s like mine that wasn't a particularly amazing spec. It proved to me that, once again, it's about the car. 

As a 964 owner, I watch the market fairly closely for this era of 911, and took a keen interest in the listing for this 32K-mile 1989 Carrera 4. This was a special car for a few reasons beyond the mileage; namely, it was determined to be a "Venture Tour" car which was a Porsche-sanctioned driving event across Europe for the first batch of 964s. They were all Guards Red and limited by VIN. This was one of those cars, not that the seller cared: he took average photos, barely engaged in the comments, and didn't upload a single cold-start video. It still sold for $96,000. 

What I love about this result is it shows you how cars that aren't particularly hard to find, or that otherwise don't stand out in a significant way, can easily be impacted by the comment section of an auction. You know, the ones that belong to folks with a decent income but not mega millionaires - the people who really want to see every dollar back out of their investment. The individuals with the landmark vehicles really don't need to sweat the comments, or give into the demands of a virtual lynch mob. The seller of the above-referenced 911 was berated multiple times for not taking professional photos (which he addressed by noting that the BaT staff took too long to find him a photographer - the guy lives in the Chicago suburbs, not exactly a remote location), for some non-existent issue regarding the bumper mesh, and for not answering every sniveling, dumb-ass question that non-buyers on BaT love to ask. My favorite comment is this:

Say what you will about the seller and the photos, a low mileage aircooled 911 is still going to bring the money. It seemed to only bother the non-bidders.

BINGO! The seller of this 964 is like a presidential candidate who won't debate: why subject myself to the ridicule of an audience that isn't voting for me, anyway? Why even engage, and give them the chance to pick my answer apart on a massive forum? The same logic applies here. I'm sure a buyer not interested in flexing his internet muscles reached out to the seller, found a time to either inspect the car in person or run it through a PPI, and bid accordingly, given this looked like an excellent specimen of a 964. 

No matter where you choose to sell, if the car is a home run, it will sell like one. If it raises doubts in the mind of a buyer - whether virtual or standing in front of you - it won't. Kudos to this seller for not bending to the whims of the internet comment army, which would have only led to his auction suffering as a result.

By the way, you can store your records and build a pretty nice portfolio for your car on The Common Gear, and use it to either sell your car privately or drop a link in the comments section of your auction to create a simple, secure path to all your records and maintenance for potential buyers to view virtually. Check it out! 

A few days ago, I laid bare some of the issues with the Bring A Trailer commenting system (you can read that diatribe here), with the crux of the issue being that rogue commenters can derail an auction, even when they have no intention of bidding. 

After posting this article to Substack and Instagram, a follower on IG reached out to tell me that I should dig a little deeper into the BaT user at the heart of the issues with the Lotus Elise auction, BiffNotZeem, as he was the user that flagged a non-existent title issue as reason for proceeding with caution. While not scientific in theory, it stands to reason that he spooked at least a few bidders, and the Lotus sold for a paltry $29,000. 

The IG user encouraged me to look at a car BiffNotZeem sold to none other than Magnus Walker, the well-known Porsche collector. The BaT auction was for a Lotus Esprit, and you can view the auction here. Like most BaT listings, the post-sale comments get far less attention than when the auction is live, and most users probably didn't check back to see how unhappy Magnus was with the car when it showed up. It had all sorts of issues, from the clutch fluid leaking out of the car to the carbs being plugged up, not to mention the driver's door not opening. BiffNotZeem would reference this in another auction for an Aston Martin V8 Vantage, one of a myriad of listings where he logs a handful of bids with no shot of ever buying the car, essentially advising sellers not to park their cars while a listing is in progress, because in his case, he "....would have caught the issue and corrected it before the sale." 

OK, first of all: parking your car that is currently being auctioned is the one piece of advice I give anyone considering driving the car while it's being bid on. It's terrible advice to recommend using a car while it's effectively being sold. Additionally, there is no way he didn't know about the variety of issues present with the Lotus that Magnus purchased, and you can hear more about his experience with the car post-purchase on a 2018 episode of The Smoking Tire Podcast with Matt Farah. 

So, the irony here is pretty thick that the guy who regularly never bids high enough to buy a car on BaT and who firebombed another seller's listing is accused of the exact same sort of bad behavior that led to one of the more prolific car collectors of our day having a fairly negative experience on BaT. Combine this with other automotive personalities like Tyler Hoover also getting screwed over on a BaT purchase by virtue of a seller who never once had to answer for his actions with the BaT leadership team and you really have to wonder why they continue to enjoy the reputation that they do. 

In the end, it's slightly bananas to me that a so-called Lotus expert from Washington State can both disparage sellers while also selling a car with notable issues and consistently place numerous no-impact bids with no repercussions. He whines about being threatened with lawsuits, and how he will no longer share his insights on BaT because of it. Look at one of his last comments: "Even though I have deep experience with particular cars, I don’t comment on vehicles here anymore. Threat of litigation after I said only positive things but had some paperwork questions that wouldn’t deter me from bidding let me know that things have changed since I sold my most recent Esprit here."

If they can fool Magnus Walker with a dog of a car, they can certainly fool you - all while so-called experts continue to rule the day via an unchecked comments section. That's why you should consider selling your car yourself on The Common Gear. 

There's been a recurring theme among numerous disappointed sellers on Bring A Trailer that seems to be a uniquely BaT problem - and one they clearly have no desire of fixing. This issue, and the thousands of dollars it costs good, honest sellers, is one of the more disturbing aspects of online auctions, and it's high time sellers stop accepting it. 

A thread popped up on the popular message board Lotus Talk ("My Bring A Trailer Nightmare"), wherein the now-former owner of a 1998 Lotus Elise S1 shared what amounted to a travesty of an auction. The thread is a year old at this point, but it warrants bringing up to the surface because the seller's experience is not unique. The abridged version is this: two commenters were allowed to question the car's legal, titled status (as it was a British-market import), which almost certainly introduced enough doubt to scare anyone off who had never dealt with such a car before. The commenters in question had no intention of buying or bidding on the car, and instead simply created a distraction about a non-existent issue. While BaT did strike some of the comments, the one that started the snowball effect - by a poster named "BiffNotZeem" - was allowed to stand, the gist of which was, "This one time, at band camp, the U.S. title provided with the vehicle wasn't the right one and the car was seized by the Feds and destroyed. The family dog was also killed in the process." 

It was an utterly useless comment that I'm certain caused more than one bidder who have never dealt with an imported car to stop participating. One thing I've learned over the years is that I, personally, have a strong stomach for buying cars with no paper trails and figuring out how to get them legally registered. 98 percent of the car-buying population does not, and I have seen more than one car sold for scrap because of perceived title issues. Put simply, it's a big deal to most people, and one that will absolutely cause an auction to flatline. 

To add insult to injury, the seller was unaware that BaT does you the "favor" of closing the gap between your (forced and low) reserve price to make the sale. When the car stalled out just shy of his reserve - a number he begrudgingly accepted because the BaT auction specialist told him it was sail past that number - he thought he would be able to keep his car and sell it privately. Instead, to his shock, he saw the car sold for a tick over the reserve. Car sold, and he left easily about $10,000 on the table. 

To be fair, I have been surprised time and again to see the sale prices of some no reserve cars go far higher than expected. I will not sit here and say you can't create some legitimate buzz with a NR sale. However, when you combine forcing either NR or a very low reserve on sellers and then fail to stop commenters with no intention of bidding on your car from striking fear in the hearts of potential bidders, it's an absolute disaster for sellers. Had I been in a place to contact the seller of the above-referenced Lotus, I would have told him to keep his car and never engage with the high bidder, because a rash of no sales driven by sellers whose auctions were unfairly (and likely, illegally) damaged by bad actors in the comments section is the only way to force BaT to change. 

I have seen more than one person defend the comments section on BaT as some sort of bastion of car auction free press, letting the market inform buyers and ridicule sellers about what they don't know. It's not: I guarantee you someone at BaT has figured out there's money to be made on auctions where the engagement spikes because of what's unfolding beneath the pretty pictures and boilerplate car details, and they have zero interest in helping clamp down the insurrection as it unfolds (if anything, they have likely figured out how to fan the flames to their benefit - an old newsroom saying, "If it bleeds, it leads", comes to mind). The intake team will roll out the red carpet for the 1 percenters and firebomb anyone who interferes with the auctions belonging to sellers of six-figure supercars, but for the rest of you, stop: take a moment to consider selling your car yourself, privately. Your bank account - and your soul - will thank you.

If any of you are Hagerty customers, you undoubtedly receive a series of emails with different content themes. Content is the heartbeat of engagement these days, and great content undoubtedly brings customers deeper into the relationship with a company or product.

However, it's evident many organizations can't crack the content matrix. Every online auction company is hoping to find the silver bullet of content that helps sellers get over the lack of in-person connection that the likes of Barrett-Jackson and Russo & Steele still have working in their favor. However, I've yet to see evidence of any online marketplace building a content library that makes enthusiasts want to pledge blind loyalty to their brand, and it seems based on the emails I get from Hagerty, there's an emphasis on quantity over quality. 

Take this recent article from Hagerty talking about cars that have experienced a dip in values. On the surface, this is interesting content - who wouldn't want to know which cars and trucks are trailing off value-wise? However, the cars in question are so limited in production and access that the fact the prices are dipping impacts a very small portion of the collector car marketplace. And even then, if you happen to own a BMW E9 "Batmobile," you are of a wealth class that isn't much concerned that "...#2 values have sunk by 27 percent." 

Oh, and breaking news: the Alfa Romeo Tubolare Zagato (TZ) has lost $150,000 in value and now sells reliably under $1M. Please, make plans now to unload your collection. With 112 made, one of you surely has a TZ squirreled away. 

As someone who understands that good content is the pathway to great relationships, I take no issue with companies like Hagerty trying to crack the code. However, at least start with valuations that speak to the bulk of car enthusiasts, which means assembling lists of 90s-era JDM cars or 80s turbocharged hot hatches and tracking sale results quarter to quarter. But that takes a good amount of work and number-crunching; far harder to do than waiting to see what an Aston Martin DB4 GT will pull at the next gathering of blue bloods. 

If you want a more predictable way of tracking and gauging value, consider using The Common Gear to upload your maintenance records and receipts, so you can share a digital portfolio with the next owner to drive a higher sale price - regardless of what the markets say your car should be selling for. 

I saw a friend recently who sells houses. He's not a shark or even a remotely proficient realtor. I actually don't think he's a realtor but just some glorified, "I'll sell your home for less" kind of guy. He's not having a great year, noting that prices are down overall, as is the quality of the homes for sale. 

The collector car market is in much the same place. Average cars are not selling. Average cars that once brought silly money have been trading hands for what they always should have been worth. This 1991 BMW 318is, a driver-quality car with questionable modifications, sold for $20,000 on Bring A Trailer in March 2023. When it reappeared in November of 2024, it sold for $8,000 less, ringing in at $12,000.

The seller was resigned to the fact that he wasn't going to get what he paid; however, who wouldn't say that? The frothiness of the market is pure fiction, hyped up by non-bidders that gin up the action to see an exciting result. They aren't there when you tell your wife you took an $8,000 loss on a car she didn't want you to buy. 

Like everything in life, there are kingmakers and there are pawns. The kingmakers set the market so it works to their advantage, and the pawns unwittingly execute the strategy. The collector and hobby car market continues to settle, and the likes of Hagerty and Sports Car Market will tell you it's normal, typical, and all part of the plan. But like the collapse of the housing market and mortgage-backed securities in 2008, one has to wonder if this market - in its own small, unique way - is just as propped up to benefit the 1 percenters like everything else in life. 

In the meantime, buy cautiously and don't pay attention to pricing models based in BaT results. 

Many of you know Rob Siegel, the so-called "Hack Mechanic" who is known by many in the vintage BMW circle. He's particularly famous for owning and driving, to his credit, cosmetically-challenged BMWs that he repairs in his garage, side of the road, and wherever else he finds himself behind the wheel of an otherwise risky vehicle.

He's also a writer, and regularly opines about his experiences fixing said BMWs. He also talks about selling vehicles on occasion, and is sought-out to consign vehicles on behalf of sellers who don't want to bother with the arduous process of listing on sites like Bring A Trailer. 

Recently, he wrote about selling his aunt's Bentley convertible. What struck me was how the Hack Mechanic, the revolutionary hobby car guy, was completely fine with BaT telling him he couldn't have his reserve price of $75K, knocking him down to a paltry $55K. This was after, of course, he submitted legions of photos and data, undoubtedly spending upwards of 3 hours getting all of this information uploaded. 

I likened this to taking a job where they promise you'll get to your target salary number with the bonus - except the bonus is contingent on company performance. And after you've worked there a year, you find out you should have asked for your original number in salary and not a non-existent bonus. 

Being told what you should sell your car for based on the auction house's likelihood of making money on it is no different than working for a lower salary based on a wink and a nudge from a corporation that they might make enough money to pay you a bonus. 

So, over the last few weeks I've been cleaning house a bit. I sold a 1999 911 and my 1995 Audi S6. I am actively trying to sell my 1997 Lexus LX450 (Land Cruiser), but that's being done in pursuit of a different daily driver. Regardless, I've been in sales mode. 

The 911 took far too long to sell, but it at least went to the first guy who contacted me about it. He needed time to put the money together and after two flops of potential buyers in between, it still went to the one buyer who showed the most interest. The S6 sold quite quickly because I discounted it a bit in the interest of a fast sale. The Lexus Land Cruiser - too early to say. I've got a lot into that truck and can't give it away, but I'm eager to move into something else so it may have to be sold at a loss. 

One thing that stood out to me: our obsession with selling cars via auction format listings is more curious than ever. Let's take Bring A Trailer: the average time it takes to get a vehicle listed is 4-6 weeks. Even with its extended sales process, the 911 took 4 weeks to move on after the original listing went up. The S6 took about 8 hours with a great price attached. My point is, selling via auction isn't making the sales process any faster. It's simply giving you the adrenaline rush of a bid here, a bid there, as opposed to the lull between emails or Facebook Marketplace messages. 

But boy, a lot of enthusiasts are absolutely convinced an auction is the way to go. I suppose the decimation of any decent online classifieds sites doesn't help, so you can understand why sites like BaT have become so popular. But to convince yourself that it's a faster way to sell a car is silly, and if you can be patient and accept the fact that you're going to have to deal with the occasional bouts of silence between potential suitors for your old car, you're liable to make just as much money and deal with far less internet scrutiny from strangers in the comments section. 

One of the biggest misconceptions of the modern age is who has money and who doesn't. The folks we think are killing it on YouTube actually aren't; the people controlling the purse strings are the same people it's always been. In this instance, a wave of content creators of fairly popular YouTube channels have been coming clean and reporting that not only have they not been killing it, but that their channels were taken over by private equity bros. 

This is so strange to me. Some of these channels have a million subscribers, sure, but it takes ages to get there and then you have to feed the beast. And what some of these recent admission videos show is that the new owners of the channels, in classic private equity fashion, only exist to suck whatever money they can get out of the content creators and then move on. So, if a video doesn't "hit" the right way, or the numbers flat-line after the lack of a viral smash, the owners of the channel are simply going to carve it up for parts while continually asking the remaining skeleton crew of staff members to keep trying to make a video that will drive 5 percent more ad revenue. 

This recent video from a so-called former creative director at Donut Media discloses that he and several others left the organization due to disagreement with the new management structure. I have to admit, it sounds damn near impossible to be "forced" to make new videos that somehow, continue to rack up millions of views, especially knowing what we know about how awful YouTube's compensation plans are. At the same time, the private equity firm likely expects its creative folks to continue to be creative and understand which direction audience behaviors are heading. 

All in all, it sounds like once again, the wrong people are in charge and channel creators are way too eager to sell their souls for a little bit of cash and zero creative freedom. 

Over the last few years, many of us (me) have gotten bent out of shape because of the supposed prices cars are selling for on sites like Bring A Trailer. However, I was reminded of the reality of selling recently when I spotted an NA Miata for sale in rural Blue Ridge, Georgia, down the road from my in-laws' house.

I see this Miata, with the desirable factory hardtop, in the middle of Nowheresville, Georgia, and assume that such a car with its extremely limited potential audience in this mountain town is going to be sold for peanuts. I was wrong, however, as upon closer inspection, the seller had an asking price of $7,000. 

Is this Miata going to sell for this price? Absolutely not. The seller doesn't even know what Bring A Trailer is, and has no interest in paying $5 to craigslist to list it. The car is sitting by the side of the road, dirty, with a solitary sign in the window and a stupid price tag. The reality is this seller just wants a quick buck and is hoping that one of the myriad tourists floating by is going to think $7K is a good deal. 

This is a micro-level example but on a macro basis, the same thing is likely happening online and in larger metro areas. Sellers ask lofty prices, and they settle for what the car was actually worth. The number a car is bid to may never actually be the price it sells for, as buyers still have to meet the seller in person and decide if they want to move forward. How do we know that both parties don't agree to a price that's $1,000 less? 

So, all that is to say, don't lose faith that every car is out of your price range, and by the same token, don't assume your vehicle is worth the price the online auction indicates a similar model sold for.